Interview w/ Kevin of The Opus

"My love is to sit down and create."

DJ/producer Mr. Echoes of Chicago's groundbreaking crew The Opus lays it out...

How long have you been involved in hip hop and to what capacity?

Oh man, I’d say for me it goes all the way back to 1994 actually. I mean I’d been listening to stuff that came out in ‘89 like Grandmaster Flash and Kurtis Blow and the pioneers of hip hop. But I wasn’t heavily involved in it ‘cause I have pretty eclectic taste in music where I’m into a little bit of everything. Basically when Rakim and KRS One and Public Enemy came out – that stuff just blew me away like, ‘Whoa! What is this?’ Specifically with the BombSquad ‘cause I was always into music but I’d never really got into it where I actually wanted to be involved. What happened is when Public Enemy’s ‘Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back’ came out that’s when I was like, okay I want to be a part of this scene, I want to make music like that. I always had different direction with music and what I wanted to do but when I heard their style of music specifically it just kind of opened my eyes up. And they came out and then KRS One came out with the whole sampling – not just sampling in general but to be able to use sampling as a tool to take a lot of bits and pieces of music – it made me want to do that. So at that point I started messing around and kicking around some ideas and then it was a couple years after, once I got my foundation of what I was actually doing together I started letting people hear my music and beats. Then after that I formed a group called Rubberroom back in ’95/‘96 and we started getting really serious about it. Everything started coming together, we started doing some shows, and people started liking our style and were really interested in the uniqueness of it. And from there it just kind of took off … even though as The Opus we’re sort of starting over again … ‘cause I’m not with Rubberroom for various reasons, you know. Being part of the industry you go through a lot where labels come and go. We kind of got caught up in the come-and-go of the labels which pretty much was detrimental to some of the other members of the group that, at that point, decided to disband. We as producers, me and my partner, we decided to keep evolving and not really being dependent upon others. So we solicit beats to other people but at the same time we still have a uniqueness as far as what we do with instrumental hip hop. Kind of like two worlds that we’re caught up in right now…

Yeah, I heard you got started producing international house music, right?

Exactly – like dance music. But not like that techno dance, more soulful type of stuff. ‘Cause back then there was no hip hop in Chicago, the only thing in Chicago was dance music. So like I said, when I first got my equipment I was experimenting with that a lot. Then when I heard what the Bomb Squad was doing with a sampler it just totally blew my mind. I was like wow, what am I doing? It was creative – it was taking little bits and pieces of music. And at that point it wasn’t like I was doing it to say okay I want to do hip hop now, I was really interested in how they did that, you know what I mean? I wanted to know how stuff like that could be done. Then once I got more involved it just started growing and growing. Even our stuff to this day is really not purely just hip hop instrumental, it’s not just purely hip hop sound – it can go from down-tempo type of style to a trip hop type of style or an electronica feel to it with this driven hip hop pattern of beat over it, so…

So you’ve just been DJing and producing then?

I don’t DJ too much anymore – more on the production side of things. And then we put out our own projects, they’re like instrumental projects – sort of like what [DJ] Shadow does or what DJ Krush does.

So do you put out mixtapes?

We just put out a mixtape last month. We actually put out albums too. Like I put out two albums, the first was ‘First Contact’ with Slug and Murs and I Self Divine and Aesop Rock. Right when these guys were getting hot we had the opportunity to work with them, then after that is what the story leads to after that. A couple of the projects – the last two full ones – are full length albums that came out of record companies. But then the last project we did was kind of like a compilation of some old, new, unreleased, imported stuff that we mixed together as a mixtape.

So if you had to classify your music – if you had to characterize it in some way – how would you describe it? If there’s some kind of message you’re trying to reach people with, what would you call it?

That’s a good question because if I had to reach people I would still call it hip hop ‘cause that’s what I was taught to be unique and different and to make your stuff sound like stuff that nobody has ever heard before. So I would still generally classify it as hip hop, myself. But it falls across so many different genres because of the ambient sound that we use. It can be very dark and grungy at times but then it can be very ambient. And it’s weird, like a lot of people ask ‘man, are you guys like really spiritual individuals?’ And I’m like, ‘well why do ask that?’ It’s because of the certain feel that it gives us or gives you. Sometimes it gives you a feeling of spirituality and enlightenment and sometimes people say ‘man, it’s very dark.’ It’s very moody. I would say our music is a very moody type of experience – it can go from angry and mad to very emotional and spiritual. So like I said, the general classification which I like to call it is still hip hop.

When you guys are handing out tracks to artists do you choose artists that you think can accentuate the moods of your music?

These days we don’t typically hand out tracks anymore unless specific people want to work with us, only because we’re working on our own projects as far as working on our own albums. Sometimes people don’t understand – we get a lot of people that tell us ‘man, we want some of that dark stuff, that moody stuff that sounds like Rubberroom.’ Then when we give it to them it’s not really a good fit – it doesn’t fit certain artists. We work with some artists but then some artists, once they get it, they just can’t envision it for some reason. It varies from time to time but I just give them whatever I feel. Now I’d like to be more specific about working with certain people, like a Qwel ‘cause I feel that he can really accentuate what we do. Or someone like Aesop. So now I guess it does become a bit more selective in who we try to work with.

What are your feelings on the hip hop scene in Chicago?

I think Chicago has such a big scene in that it just varies. Like on the West side of Chicago you have a completely different scene than what’s on the South side of Chicago – they even have a completely different sound. West side is known for more the CrucialConflict, Tongue Twista type of style, and there’s nothing wrong with that, that’s just the type of style that really comes out of the West side of Chicago. South side is Common-influenced, so you have a lot of production and you have a lot of artists that kind of go in that direction but not as, I don’t want to say not as conscious as Common, but more lyrical – you find a lot of lyrical artists on the South side. But then you can go further south and you’ll have a completely different scene which kind of reverts back to the West side scene of, not necessarily crunk music but that Twista type of style. Then you have the North side of Chicago that has more of a grass-roots hip hop feel to it. The scene is real diverse in what you get in a city. Even us, we’re on the West side and we make stuff that doesn’t sound like it’s from any side of the city. So you have a very diverse musical and lyrical range of people that work together collectively, that’s why I think one of our biggest advantages is that we don’t necessarily have a particular scene as far as styles because it’s all over the place. It’s almost like a sound clash – everybody gets to see exactly what everybody is doing.

What do you think about the development of the hip hop industry in Chicago?

I think that we have so much to offer that the industry has not really decided on what to do with us. Even with the success of Common and Kanye you would think that the industry would come and kind of check us out a little more but that’s not the case – we’re still consistently passed up which, in my opinion, harbors ill feelings towards the industry because no one’s coming to check you out so you have to keep building and building upon yourself and I think that once we get past waiting on the industry and waiting on a deal and collectively work together to go through the industry, to see that we can work together to have a solid foundation and a base and that we’re very supportive of each other, then I think the industry will come flock to us. But that’s kind of the hard part. I think that it’s getting better. I think that people are starting to work together to say ‘well, forget the industry. The industry is not here, they have no interest in us, they don’t care what we’re doing right now.’ Everybody who is getting on is getting on because they know either Common or Kanye and it becomes very very very selective. So you have a lot of people that are saying ‘hey, forget it, let’s do our own thing.’ So now you have labels that kind of cross-collaborate with other labels and build up a network in the city, which I think is a good thing cause I think that’s the only way that it’s going to happen. Even though you’d like for the industry to come calling, they’re not. Specifically with the fact that the sales of albums are really down now everyone’s being selective in what they do. I think that the industry has made us stronger to work with each other because they’re not here, so we have no choice but to work with each other, we have no choice but to build up our scene in the city and to get people involved in what we’re doing and what the scene is doing. And that’s how it works because you have no base, you have no legs as far as radio or labels, you know? It just becomes inherently tough. It’s a building process but it’s still building.

What’s you goal with regards to your music?

Unfortunately, that’s an all-in-one question because I do want to do it as a career, you know, that’s my love – my love is to sit down and create. Unfortunately, for me to sit down and create I have to do it eight hours a day and if I’m doing it eight hours a day I have to find an outlet to cover myself financially to do it eight hours a day. So it’s a very all-encompassing type of situation. But my personal goal would be to do it as a career and be able to take my artistry on the road and present it because this is the love that I have for it. It’s very tough to do that when you really don’t have a deal and you’re financing everything yourself. Or even if you do get a deal – we’ve had a couple deals – but not enough so that we’ve been put into a position to actually take our act on the road. And it could be mostly my fault, well not my fault, but because of my situation – I have a family, I have kids that I have to put through school. So when you’re not making the money to justify making it into a career it just becomes inherently harder to do that, you know? But again, that’s what I really want to do, I want to get in that place where I can make this a career – where I can be financially stable – and have fun doing it to show people that this is what I want to do, this is what I have to offer.

Who do you consider to be local legends or the most significant contributors to the local hip hop culture?

I think Common has made a very significant impact on the industry and on people in general in the city. Considering that a) he’s a great lyricist, b) he’s actually talking about things that make sense – his content is good. You know we’ve gotten so far away from that where everything is pretty much dance – and all that has its place, I’m not necessarily saying that there’s anything wrong with it, but when it’s out of balance. But when that’s all you have is one perspective I think that the balance is all out of whack. I think that he is helping develop another side of hip hop that needs to be developed.You’re only presenting one side of hip hop music and I think that Common is offsetting that balance by presenting another side of it where the things that he’s saying makes sense. I would even say along with Kanye. What Kanye is doing is presenting a whole other side of hip hop that talks about social issues and things that you can pretty much relate to. Like I said, you can only relate to the other sides of hip hop for so long, in my opinion. I personally can’t relate to it just because of what my situation is. As a father and a husband it’s not something that I can get into all the time. And I’m not a drug-dealer etiher, so… You know, a lot of the street rap, again it has its place but I think that these leaders like Common and Kanye are showing you another place of the music and another place lyrically that other people can relate to. So I’ve given them mucho kudos for that instead of them just coming out saying ‘okay I’m gonna do what I wanna do and make whatever type of music I wanna make just to make money’ and that’s not what they’re doing. They’re giving you a whole different perspective and that’s why I say that they are making a very significant impact, not just in Chicago but even across the world.

You mentioned Common and Kanye but what about Lupe Fiasco and Rhymefest?

I think they’re dope. I really like Lupe’s album. I forgot to talk about him. I think that he is definitely making that impact where it’s changing the game a little bit. I love them. I love Rhymefest. I love what they’re talking about – that whole Blue Collar style. That whole hard-working Chicago mentality coming out and working hard and not only just doing it to do it but doing it and having something to say and being able to make an impact with it – that’s the first and foremost thing to me. If you’re gonna do it, have something that’s relevant to say in the game. That’s how I personally feel about it, somebody else may say differently. Somebody else might say ‘man, I’m doing this just to make the money and sex sells right now and I gotta get paid.’ That’s fine, you gotta do what you gotta do but I really respect those that are very true to what they’re doing and aren’t broken down by what direction the industry is telling you to go.

So do you think there are any other local artists that are in the same league, with regards to lyricism and content as these other guys?

Oh yeah. You got Capital D from All Natural that I think is a very good lyricist. You got this one cat, Lord 360 who is a very relevant individual in the game to me. You got a few emcees. You got Algorhythmics – a crew on the South side. You definitely have a few people out here that got skills. Capital D’s ‘Return of the Renegade.’ Even his album before that was just kind of mind-blowing to me. You know he’s putting out what he wants to put out and saying what he wants to say.

Can you summarize where you fit into hip hop?

Where I fit in, what I took hip hop for was to be creative, from a production standpoint – to be a creative producer. To work with individuals that can see my side of the story. Even though a lot of people say ‘well you guys are kind of to the left of hip hop.’ But, what is hip hop? Hip hop has so many different sides to it that I could fit into that Beatmakers type of sound or that dark and grungy type of sound but I don’t see us really fitting anywhere, I see us hitting all over the place. Now, who do we want to work with – who would I want to choose to work with – is a whole different story to me. I feel right in there with everybody else, as far as from a production standpoint. I think that hip hop right now is all over the place in sound, you know. You got crunk, you got your diplomat sound, you got your soulful hip hop sound and I personally think we fit into all of that.

Check out The Opus' website: myspace.com/theopus

Interview w/ Grand Agent

[ "I give some specific thought to what would be on the minds of the late-twenties, thirty-something or even forty-something hip hop heads – that’s where it’s at now." ]


Philly-local and independent rap veteran Grand Agent tells what it means to be a hip hop head
all grown up:

How, when and where did you first get into making hip hop music?

My first time in a studio was 1994. Soon afterwards I built a four-track studio at my home and started producing and recording religiously. It’s pretty much has gone on since then in just that way… The from about 1986 I been listening to Philadelphia’s own Steady B., Schooly D., Fresh Prince. But until like ’94 is the time it took to put the decision to make records into action.

What’s up with the rap scene in Philadelphia? What type of rap are cats on over there? Is it industry-driven?

Different cats are on different stuff over here. Hood cats are on that hood stuff – gunplay-go bitches-drug dealer rap – which a lot of cars are pretty good at. It’s just conversational in the hood these days to be able to express that experience – your experience – your strength and hope in 16’s these days. Other cats who might go see Hiero(glyphics) or Atmosphere when they come to town are obviously of another scene. College – Temple, U. Penn, Drexel – seems to be where the two crowds bump heads the most. I would say only a small percentage of either set is really industry driven because you have to be looking beyond Philly for a serious music industry career. It has great music history and contemporaries, but not really a hub. Philly is the kind of place where you can get good because if you doing something along the entertainment lines it’s usually because you really just want to. And the audiences are way tougher than anywhere else.

What is the message behind the title of your upcoming LP ‘Adult Contemporary’? What are the themes of the music? Is this a new direction for you?

Adult Contemporary is about hip hop all grown up. Really targeting first and second generation hip hoppers without putting the music in a museum by calling it “old school” or burying it by calling it “underground.” It’s hip hop for people who grew up on hip hop; whose needs are not met by what passes for hip hop today in the mainstream sense of the word. For these reasons it’s “adult.” And for refusing to die and insisting on getting better with time, it’s “contemporary.”

What I’m trying to do is make a niche for people that have grown up with hip hop. Me, I’m older than the targeted hip hop audience so I was thinking of marketing things where I could appeal to people who grew up on hip hop. I wanna continue to make rap in the same kinda way that I knew it but not be relegated to categories that make it sound like something smaller than it is. Hip hop’s already gotten so far away from what it was that people have forgotten about what this shit is really about, you know man?! I think there’s a lot of people like me. I’m 33, I got a kid, and people I came up with is starting to have families and stuff – all the stuff we never thought we’d did when we was young and into hip hop shit, you know? This is for hip hop people that grew up on hip hop. But this ain’t no oldies shit, you know? It’s just a more mature brand of what’s out there.

The themes are the usual for Grand Agent, a full range of emotion. The only thing new about the direction, if anything, is that I give some specific thought to what would be on the minds of the late-twenties, thirty-something or even forty-something hip hop heads – that’s where it’s at now. And I took into consideration where we are in life and how much of how we deal with grown-up responsibilities was shaped by our finding the fountain of youth that is hip hop.

How much longer are you planning on doing this for? Do you have a specific goal you’re trying to reach?

I plan on making records until I expire in some capacity or another. I am definitely shifting a great deal of my focus and effort into getting my behind-the-scenes resume up so that when the time is right I can make a smooth transition into what now appears to me to be my real strong suit, which is creative direction and project-artist development. I do have a very specific goal which will reveal itself in time...

What type of musicians and music groups, not necessarily only hip hop artists, are making the kind of music you respect? Who should we all be checking out?

I been having the same responses to this almost forever. I’m just gonna drop one favorite male and one favorite female. Sly Stone, and Sade.

What are the last few books you read and the last few contemporary hip hop albums you checked out that you enjoyed? What did you like about them?

The last ill book I read was The Long Tail. It was ill because it basically confirmed a lot of suspicions I had already. I did a lot of the research on theories that had been floating around in my head for a while. And it just gave me crazy ideas. As far as albums – this isn’t too recent but I guess it’s contemporary – Nas’ ‘Lost Tapes Volume 1.’ I like that joint because it’s mysteriously cohesive for something kind of thrown together. But still I do get the feeling it was thrown together… So I would say that speaks a great deal to Nas’ creative risk-taking and work ethic.

Check Grand Agent's website: myspace.com/grandagent